Question about fertile vs. infertile

[GACHICK]

OK, you all know that I'm really new to this but I was wondering if the following is true.

When I cracked one of my Buff's eggs (when I had a rooster), you could see a white squiggly in the egg (was this sperm?). Now that I don't have a rooster with the Buff or the Araucana, I don't ever see this little white thing in the egg when I crack it.

Anyway, is this little white thing the sperm? :oops:

[Heidicat]

No it is not the sperm.


All eggs have a small white lump on the yolk called the blastoderm, which usually can be seen when the egg is cracked into a pan. People sometimes mistake this for a little chick beginning to develop. Actually, this "is" where fertiliztion takes place, but the lump is there wether the egg is fertile or not. With close examination of the balstoderm you can distinguish between a fertile and an infertile egg. If the blastoderm is irregular and disorganized, and appears entirely opaque, then the egg was not fertilized. If it is neat and rounded with a small translucent eye in the center, you are looking at the very tiniest of baby chickens. :D

[GACHICK]

Wow, Heidi! That's really interesting! I had no clue. I wonder why my Araucana's eggs don't have a blastoderm (sp)? Anyway, thanks so much for the info!

[Heidicat]

Are you sure???? take an egg, and crack it in your hand, then squish it thru your fingers, you should be able to "feel" the blastoderm, it may be small. Just a idea :wink: If you are really concerned :? If not, then I wouldn't worry about it, unless you plan on breeding them.

[GACHICK]

I'll do that! I eat her eggs. They are HUGE! I don't have a male Araucana right now so I'm not breeding her. I'll check tomorrow morning and let you know. Thanks again, Heidi.

[Heidicat]

:wink: No problem, chickie!! See ya tomorrow, Heidi :wink:

[dr.bangash]

Well,
Welcome to me, at this forum,
In order to describe the fertility and Infertility of an egg, The procedure should be followed called "Candling",
1. Take a 60 or 100 watt bulb in a dark place,
2. If you can arrange it in a box with opening which can hold an egg over it, and bulb in that box.
3. Now examine the egg in dark area, over that bulb.
4. If you can see a spot "blastoderm" also called Germinal Disc, or any form of the organised lining as like spider web, then egg is fertile.
5. If you see nothing or cracked lining it means, infertile or dead embryo respectively.
Hope you got What I meant to say!

[sail2617]

Welcome Dr. Omer,
Thanks for the input. We look forward to seeing you around the board. How many chickens do you have and what kind?

Peace,
Sail

[JamesC]

dr. banbash:
The question, I believe, was about determining fertility before any incubation had taken place. Fertility can't be determined until at least 24 hours of incubation by candling and then only if you have an egg that has a shell that's easy to see through with a very good light in a dark room. You can't see the blastoderm on the surface of a yolk, by candling, before incubation begins. If there's new technology that allows you to do that, I'd love to hear about it.

GACHICK:
I got the impression that you were referring to the "squiggley" white things that you see when you break an egg open. Those are called chalazae and are a type of albumen that is specialized to keep the yolk centered in the egg. They are always part of the egg structure and as Heidi advised, so is the blastoderm or blastodisk. If you don't see the little round spot on the surface of the egg yolk when you break it open, gently turn the yolk over with your fingers, you'll find it.

James

[dr.bangash]

YAH, JAMES You are right, I didn't get the discussion,
How can we determine the fertility of an egg before incubation, Any idea?

[dr.bangash]

Welcome Dr. Omer,
Thanks for the input. We look forward to seeing you around the board. How many chickens do you have and what kind?

Peace,
Sail DEAR SAIL, I am student of dvm here at pakistan. (VETERINARY MEDICINE)

[RonL]

How can we determine the fertility of an egg before incubation, Any idea?
I don't think we can without destroying the egg (but I could be wrong).

Doc. I think (and hope others will agree) we are going to have a blast (a lot of fun) conversing with you :D ......... By the time you finish school, your english will be much better :lol: . Glad to have you here .........

[JamesC]

dr. bangash:
Fertility can't be determined prior to incubation. If that were possible there would never be an infertile egg wasted.

James

[sail2617]

Pleased to meet you Doc. How's your weather in Pakistan? It is cold and snowing here in Missouri today, but my chickens don't seem to mind it.
I look forward to reading more posts from you.

Peace,
Sail

[dr.bangash]

Pleased to meet you Doc. How's your weather in Pakistan? It is cold and snowing here in Missouri today, but my chickens don't seem to mind it.
I look forward to reading more posts from you.

Peace,
Sail
Dear Sail, Weather here in Pakistan is very pleasent these days,
What you do in Missouri

[sail2617]

Hi Doc,
Professionally, I am a horticulturist; but for the last several years I've been a stay-at-home-mom. I live out in the country on 20 acres of land and raise a garden and orchard and chickens and dogs. I'm happily married and have 2 young sons. I have been trying to talk my husband into getting some more livestock, either some goats or pigs, but he is currently having no part of it (doesn't want any livestock). I haven't given up though, I think he'll eventually give in to some pigs, as we love the pork around here.

Peace,
Sail

[dr.bangash]

How can we determine the fertility of an egg before incubation, Any idea?
I don't think we can without destroying the egg (but I could be wrong).

Doc. I think (and hope others will agree) we are going to have a blast (a lot of fun) conversing with you :D ......... By the time you finish school, your english will be much better :lol: . Glad to have you here .........
DEAR RonL,
Thanks for your light comments, but let me tell you something,
I ask questions so that new questions can be arised from existing posts. and much of discussed here needs much more technical things to be discussed.(hope james 'll be agree wid this)
2ndly let me tell you that fertility of the egg can't be determined but atleast can be estimated, depends upon several factors, as
1. spiking
2. age of rooster and hen
3. ratio of rooster to hen in flock.
4. physical factors as temp, egg collection frequency, storage of eggs- duration and proper.

[RonL]

2ndly let me tell you that fertility of the egg can't be determined but at least can be estimated, depends upon several factors, as
1. spiking
2. age of rooster and hen
3. ratio of rooster to hen in flock.
4. physical factors as temp, egg collection frequency, storage of eggs- duration and proper.
I think the above statement better describes "hatchability", not fertility ........


DEAR RonL,
Thanks for your light comments, but let me tell you something,
I ask questions so that new questions can be arised from existing posts. and much of discussed here needs much more technical things to be discussed.(hope james 'll be agree wid this)
I agree with you 100% :) ..............

[dr.bangash]

DEAR RONL, Can you please define hatchability and fertility, aren't they directly proportional!

[RonL]

I agree, they are close. However, I think different. The way I would define them is .......

Fertility. An egg is described as fertile or infertile. Or, according to whether or not it is capable of producing a chick after being germinated by sperm from the rooster. Again, it depends on how recently a rooster has bred with the hen that laid the egg and how vigorous the rooster is.

Hatchability. The physical traits and health of the parents (genetics) and environmental factors of handling and incubation to determine the effectiveness of a fertile egg to successfully hatch a healthy chick.

A fertile egg doesn't mean it will hatch. it just means that it was fertilized by the rooster.

Does this sound right? Anyone? (I guess this could be debated!) ...............

[JamesC]

Ron:
You're right - here's a simple example of Fertility and Hatchability as a percentage of the eggs set.

Fertility
100 eggs set, 95 fertile = 95% fertility

Hatchability
Of the same 95 that were fertile, if 70 hatch, that is 70% hatchability of the original 100 set, but it's 73.68% of the 95 that were actually fertile.

Hatchability is usually expressed as a percentage of the number that were fertile, not the number set.

I hope that isn't confusing to anyone.

James

[dr.bangash]

JAMES YOU ARE RIGHT,
but I have read also that some people do define the fertility as from total number of eggs in setter, making the hatchability and fertility exactly directly proportional. Such calculations varies country to country.

[JamesC]

dr. bangash:
They may be directly proportional but they're two different things.
If I were in the hatchery business and dealing with a number of suppliers for hatching eggs, I would want to know the true rates of both fertility and hatchability as there are different factors that impact both.

A fertility problem can be genetic but in large flocks it's more to do with male/female ratios and that's an easy one to remedy.

Hatchability problems can be genetic, nutritional, envornmental, handling, storage or transportation on the side of the egg supplier. And in the hatchery it can be operational (both equipment and personnel).

If I knew, as a hatchery owner, that my employees were well trained and that my equipment was operating at it's optimal level but there was a hatchability problem I would want to asses the egg suppliers to determine what the real problem was.

Example:
Supplier A: fertility rate 98%, hatchability rate 60% of fertile eggs. The result is 58.5 live chicks from every 100 eggs set (or 58.5%).

Supplier B: fertility rate 90%, hatchability rate 80% of fertile eggs. The result would be 72 live chicks from every 100 eggs set (or 72%).

Those figures would tell the real story. Depending on the problem experienced by Supplier A, the results could be even worse because you then have to calculate Viability over the first couple of weeks. There'a a greater chance of low viability with Supplier A's eggs if the problem is due to nutritional problems for example.
Whatever the problem would be, if nothing changes, Supplier B with his lower fertility rate would be the best supplier.

James